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My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916 (Read 19956 times)
Indy40
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My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
05/07/11 at 02:56:05
 
Hi All,

I got a 1997 Ducati 916 Monoposto on which I have replaced the Magnetti Marelli device by a MkiV My16M.
I have also added two O2 sensor with exhaust pipe modification.
No hardware issues, quick support from Cliff and first electrical testing OK.
First "firing" test, bike completly cold, and with some efforts and with the "Sport.ecu" file provided, it fires ...
I spend some time to find a good idle, but I struggle a lot guessing that the map I got was too reach.
I finally hat to do a road test cause i was changing of house ! A bike not driveable at all ...

A few months later, I get everyhting out of the garage and work on it.
As the bike was running very badly, I got an Original Magnetti Marelli dump file from stock 916, spend 3 days to interpolate everything and calculate a new base map : Injection Duration AND Spark advance.
I build the file, load it into My ECU, start the bike ... it works. And pretty well in fact.
I ride it a few km with some idea to optimise 2 or 3 things.

The next day, I took the bike for 30 km in the morning.
Surprisingly, it seems to work not as good as the previous day : the morning temperature was quite lower ... ???
The bike stalls 3 or 4 times at very low regime.
I take it at the end of the afternoon to come back home (quite higher temperature) but same thing.
After having a look at the map, I find that at low TPS and RPM, there was a "hole" in the injection duration.
I build a new file and open the ECUcontrol1.50.
And then several issues :
- The loading operation of the map seems to "never end" : the cursor moves along the whole map and I have finally to close the program after 5 iteration of that kind. It works perfectly well with old "ecu" file -> is it a question of format ?
- More annoying issue : my idle TPS that was around 65-70 at idle is now around 300 when I turn on the bike AND the maximum achievable TPS that was around 900 is now around 700 -> Electrical Issue ??? And the RPM moves from 1500 to 5000 lots of time ...
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #1 - 05/07/11 at 06:49:20
 
Have a play with the beta I announced earlier. The map transfer is completely new and you should not see that issue.

Not sure about the TPS. Are you talking about the TPS base value or the real-time throttle value.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #2 - 05/07/11 at 07:16:50
 
Ok, I will test the Beta version tomorrow.

I'm really confused for the TPS and try this evening to start the bike. It starts but work really bad.
The real-time RPM moves from 1500 to 5000 each 4 or 5 seconds and then comes back but the real RPM of the engine (by hear) must be ~1500.
Before starting, the real-time throttle value is about 280-300 without touching anything and the bike starts like that ...
Everything seems to work like if real-time RPM and real-time TPS were "false" ...

I will report after the Beta test, thanks !
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #3 - 05/07/11 at 07:43:22
 
Are you talking about what the tacho is doing?

Your throttle sounds out. Typically the idle TPS will be 50 to 150. What is the actual voltage from the throttle. It should be about 1/2V which should give a reading of 100.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #4 - 05/07/11 at 23:55:52
 
Absolutly, I was talking about the Tacho : the real RPM doesn't move at all.

I download the ECUcontroller Version1.60b this afternoon.
Launch it ...
Indicated ECUcontroller TPS around 180.
I take the last modified map I got and load it to the ECU.
It seems to work well with no more loading issues, you were right.

I shut down and then dismantle the ECU connector to get the TPS measured value  as you have suggested.
Re-plug everything, contact on and WITHOUT doing anything :
Indicated ECUcontroller TPS around 60.
Max Indicated ECUcontroller TPS around 1000 when I move the throtlle !

But short time joy ...
A few seconds after, without touching the key or the ON/OFF button, the ECU re-initialize itself (fuel pump sound and so on)
AND ...
Indicated ECUcontroller TPS around 600, Pressure, Temperature and Battery Voltage completly false (1070mb / -20°/14,8 V).
I try to disconnect everything and wait some time but nothing change.
At least, this re-initialize phenomenom occurs each 5 or 10 seconds.
Lips Sealed
I've tried to measure the TPS and found around 380 mV, but really not sure ...

I Do not touch anything for an hour to change my mind !


Re-plug everyhting and this time I check with the optimiser.
Indicated TPS around 100 !
And a few seconds later after having moved the throttle : 60.
I check with ECUcontroller1.60 : same thing, real-time TPS around 60, eveything stable, a "re-init" of the fuel pump after maybe 1 minute but same values and still stable after ...
The air pressure value seems low (944 mB) but if I remember well it was a subject of another topic. The battery voltage was indicated at 10,8V, low also ?

I've checked several times in the past few hours and it doesn't move anymore.
Weather too bad for a road test today. I'll try tomorrow if I find some time and maybe play a little with the Optimiser after.
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« Last Edit: 05/08/11 at 06:32:17 by Indy40 »  
 
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #5 - 05/08/11 at 07:33:48
 
The tacho behaviour could be that you have that rpm/throttle function enabled. Your switches in the ECU should be set to On,Off,On,Off

Not sure about your over symptoms. Fortunately they occur with out you having to get on the road.

Did you clean the circuit board after construction? The MyECU input circuits are high impedance and can be affected dirt.

60 sounds like the value you should be getting.

The resetting could be a power supply issue. A LED and limit resistor across the input of the 5V regulator and ground  is  good way to see if there are interruptions.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #6 - 05/08/11 at 19:06:27
 
Quote:
The battery voltage was indicated at 10,8V, low also ?


Very low. You need a battery showing 12.5V or more.
Lotsa strange behaviour can occur if low voltage.
Is it that low measured directly at battery?
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« Last Edit: 05/08/11 at 19:08:29 by greenmonster »  

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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #7 - 05/09/11 at 06:08:21
 
- Tacho behaviour : thanks for the SW3 tip. I've read 10 times the documents and even missed it ... It seems to work after correction.
- Battery voltage : it was the value displayed on the optimiser ... I've checked directly on the battery, quite better. The battery is almost new but you're right. If such phenomenon keeps appearing, i'll try to change it.

I've made more tests this afternoon and have done some work on the map. As I've seen in another post, I have to adjust the Prime table because the bike needs some throttle to start.
I have also set the TPS Base to 0, it recalculates each time.
My Idle configuration has to be optimised also I guess : Tps Base = 39 / Idle at 57 / Fast Idle around 80. The bike does not handle very well and finally stalls at idle.
What annoys me is that after having stalled, the TPS Base and Idle values are some times quite higher : base at 60 or 70 and Idle at 85 or 100 ... ??? And at a previous TPS value (80) where it was running quite well a few minutes earlier, now it struggles and stalls ...

Other question : I've kept for the moment the SW1 "ON". In the ECU file, i let the O2 sensors to 0.
Does the 2 sensors work with the Optimiser - Autotune menu with such a configuration ?
I'm waiting for the bike to get hot but still have the "Man" setting in the Autotune menu.
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« Last Edit: 05/09/11 at 06:31:22 by Indy40 »  
 
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #8 - 05/09/11 at 07:57:19
 
Until you get correct values for all the analogs and not have the ECU resetting for no reason, it is pointless to even start the bike.
Closed loop you should also not be considering at the moment.

The changing TPS values could indicate wear in the throttle bodies/linkages but in light of the other strangle behaviour it may be something in the ECU.

The analog inputs ( 7 of them ) are on the main chip are from pin 40 down. That's the top left pins of the chip. Find out which one corresponds to the throttle and you can use that as a convenient test point. Let us know which one it is as I'm not near any bikes at the moment. This will be for the My16M only.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #9 - 06/11/11 at 07:44:49
 
Hi,
Thanks for your feedback.
I spend some times in the last weeks to check the "basics" :
dismount of everything, re-put in place the MM1.6, complete check-up of the TPS and setting of the TPS Base by adjustment of the TPS sensor after having cleaned and putted some lubricant.
With all that, I check that the bike starts well.
I then re-put in place the MyECU 16M.
The TPS at idle seems now OK around 64, and even better it seems stable.
I will test the start this week-end, and therefore I'm currently checking my Map and have a last question !
I apologize in advance if I've missed something ...

The Power stoke TDC reference : "TDC=0x1600", which corresponds to a number of Pulse equal to 22 on the 47 teeth (one missing) timing gear if I've well understood ?
Why "22" ?
Does it come from the factory with the way the timing gear is implemented on the camshaft ?
How do you determine it ?

Regards ...
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #10 - 06/11/11 at 07:47:09
 
Yes thats the way it comes from the factory. Don't change this.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #11 - 06/11/11 at 18:53:05
 
OK.
Therefore, the InjAdv and SpkAdv info in Degrees are given relative to a 0-720° full cycle,
with the absolute reference 0° = TDC Power Stroke = Pulse 22 on the timing wheel.
I am right ?
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« Last Edit: 06/11/11 at 18:53:22 by Indy40 »  
 
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #12 - 06/11/11 at 19:25:14
 
That's correct.
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #13 - 06/12/11 at 00:17:54
 
Perfect, thanks !
Just to be sure : InjAdv specifies the leading edge or trailing edge of the injection pulse ?
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« Last Edit: 06/12/11 at 00:18:12 by Indy40 »  
 
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Re: My16M starting Issues on Ducati 916
Reply #14 - 06/12/11 at 07:22:14
 
Trailing edge
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