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Starting points for dual plugged MG Sport 1100i (Read 7553 times)

Carl Allison

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Starting points for dual plugged MG Sport 1100i
11/24/12 at 15:08:33

I'm not too near the running point yet. I have a 1997 Sport 1100i that has been Stage II ported and dual plugged by Mike Rich Motorsports (MRM). In the very near future, I will be adding a Megacycle 620x10 cam (my heads have already had the valve pockets recessed for this cam), MRM pistons and Ti pushrods. Most of the goodies that I've been aspiring to for nearly ten years. I queried Mike about timing advance for the dual plugged heads and he relayed the basic settings that I should start with. Here's his response which I've separated out a tad for clarity.

Reduce the peak timing to 26˚ to start with -- from 3000 rpm to 5500
Reduce by:
5˚ @ wide open throttle
3.5˚ @ 3/4 throttle
2˚ @ 1/2 throttle
1.5˚ @ 1/4 throttle
Standard below 1/4 throttle.
Do Not Reduce Idle Timing and Keep the Idle above 1200 RPM. After 5500 reduce timing to 26 degrees across the board , Tune from there---
As far as fuel mapping goes--- Keep your air fuel ratio bellow 13.5 to 1 for best power ( 12.5- 13 is usually best.)

I'm not quite understanding Mike's suggestion on the ignition advance curves so I'm hoping someone here can educate me a bit.

Before striking off into unknown territory, the question becomes one of there being anyone here that has already gone down this path (dual-plugging) on their Guzzi and will they share their map? I don't see any maps on the Maps section hear for a dual-plugged set of heads.

I also have a prototype version of Cliff's MyECU for the V11 Sport and remnants (I've moved twice) of an optimizer. I should probably just get the newer versions of these units as they've evolved a bit since I got these back in about 2002 or so.

Fingers crossed, Carl Allison who has a helluva a lot of work yet to do before firing up the bike.

I am wide open to suggestions.

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JuhaV

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Re: Starting points for dual plugged MG Sport 1100i
Reply #1 - 11/27/12 at 03:12:12

THR 960 896 832 704 640 576 512 448 384 320 256 192 128 64 0

The following tables are all 2 dimensional tables of throttle versus RPM. The are 15 throttle points ( vertical ) and 16 RPM points.

RPM 500 1100 1500 1801 2000 2302 2601 2900 3360 3654 4045 4655 5353 6157 7082 8143
SpkAdv 14 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 22.03 23.44 25.31 27.19 27.42 32.81 34.45 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.16 35.16
SpkAdv 13 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 22.50 23.67 25.55 27.42 27.89 29.06 34.45 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.16 35.16
SpkAdv 12 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 23.44 24.38 25.78 27.66 29.06 29.06 34.45 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.16 35.16
SpkAdv 11 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 23.44 24.61 26.25 28.13 30.00 30.47 34.45 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.16 35.16
SpkAdv 10 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 23.44 24.38 26.48 28.59 30.47 30.70 34.45 36.56 36.56 36.56 36.56 35.16
SpkAdv 09 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 27.42 29.06 31.64 32.81 34.45 36.56 37.27 37.50 37.50 37.50
SpkAdv 08 11.02 12.42 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 27.42 29.06 32.58 34.45 35.86 37.73 39.61 39.84 39.84 39.84
SpkAdv 07 11.02 11.02 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 28.83 29.06 32.81 34.69 36.33 39.14 40.31 41.02 41.02 41.02
SpkAdv 06 11.02 9.84 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 28.83 31.64 33.28 35.86 38.91 40.78 41.72 42.66 42.66 42.66
SpkAdv 05 11.02 9.61 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 28.83 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06
SpkAdv 04 11.02 9.38 13.36 19.45 23.44 25.31 28.83 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06
SpkAdv 03 11.02 9.38 13.13 19.45 24.14 25.31 28.83 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06
SpkAdv 02 11.02 9.38 13.13 19.45 24.14 26.95 29.30 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06
SpkAdv 01 13.13 9.38 13.13 19.45 25.08 29.30 29.77 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06
SpkAdv 00 13.13 8.20 4.92 14.30 25.08 29.30 29.77 31.64 34.22 37.73 40.78 42.42 43.59 44.06 44.06 44.06

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JuhaV

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Re: Starting points for dual plugged MG Sport 1100i
Reply #2 - 11/27/12 at 03:25:26

Hello Carl,

This is my guess on what Mike might have meant. I copied an example of the ignition map above from http://www.jefferies-au.org/MyECU/index.htm -> Maps

The map values are only for example but show the structure of the map, which I am sure you are already familiar with.

I suppose that dual plugs will make the combustion "faster" and thus less ignition advance is needed.

I think Mike means that you should reduce the advance by 5 degrees at full throttle (100 %) => take the top row of the ignition map and substract value 5 from each of those values (for each column). As the maximum advance in this example map was 35 degrees, the new max value would be 30 degrees. It seems that Mike suggests not to go above 26 degrees anywhere in the map.

The middle row (50 %) => substract 2 degrees.

The bottom row (idle) => no substraction, original values ok.

As you see, you need to interpolate suitable substraction for each of the rows separately based on Mike's values which were only given for certain throttle openings.

Hopefully this helps. No guarantee that this is correct, but feels reasonable though !

br, JuhaV

PS. A long time ago, 2005, I had Mike's valves in my Sport Corsa 1100i. Porting was DIY due to the loooong distance between Finland and US.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/koivupiha/hw2005/behind.JPG (see the Optimiser on the triple tree !)

http://www.kolumbus.fi/koivupiha/hw2005/in_valves.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/koivupiha/hw2005/ex_valves.jpg
http://www.kolumbus.fi/koivupiha/hw2005/chamber_ported.jpg

« Last Edit: 11/27/12 at 03:32:23 by JuhaV »

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mgsport

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Re: Starting points for dual plugged MG Sport 1100i
Reply #3 - 05/19/14 at 17:55:30

Hey Carl, it's been awhile. Several years back I had Mike do a full screw and glue to previously decked and dual plugged heads with RR3 cam installed. With a lot of help and a couple of dyno sessions, using both a power commander and several iterations of chips with different advance curves, I got it running strong and fairly civilized.

Life intervened and the project and bike sat idle for several years, but I'm back at it now and ready to fine tune things. remembered Cliff's early efforts from many years back and was delighted to see he is still at it.

I have some a/f and ignition advance tables for what I think is a motor pretty close to what you have built. I'll be out of town next week, but will get them to you if you are still interested when I return.

I realize your post goes back a couple of years, and at our age that's a long time, but I'm guessing you stayed with it and probably have your bike up and running well by now. I'm about to get one of Cliff's devices and continue my own journey toward engine management nirvana.

Pierre

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