CAJ Innovations Forums - P8 requirements

raz

Senior Member

Offline

Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV,
Innovate LC-1

Posts: 373
Stockholm, Sweden
Gender: male

P8 requirements
08/15/09 at 05:45:13

Friend of mine is considering a MyECU for his Highland bike. We're trying to establish if it's possible / what is needed.

What are the sensor requirements for a P8? IIRC the tdc sensor sits on the flywheel, is that right? So is it waste spark or what? Or is that the speed sensor.

12-16 ohm injectors are no problem as far as I can see.

You don't support temp sensors having different specs, do you? I guess if they are, it's easiest to replace one or both of the sensors so they have the same spec.

Back to top

59° North
1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train

IP Logged

greenmonster Full Member Offline Sweden Posts: 196	Re: P8 requirements Reply #1 - 08/15/09 at 18:47:34 Quote: IIRC the tdc sensor sits on the flywheel, is that right? So is it waste spark or what? Yes. IIRC, yes.
Back to top	Ducati 907IE MyECU P8 IP Logged

raz

Senior Member

Offline

Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV,
Innovate LC-1

Posts: 373
Stockholm, Sweden
Gender: male

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #2 - 08/15/09 at 20:27:01

No, I just found it it good old efiman.pdf. Or is that describing a P7 ECU? Flywheel has four tabs, one each 90 degrees and that sensor is just detecting speed. Another sensor sits at camshaft and senses phase. I'm not sure if that sensor reads one "tooth" or several.

Apparently the Highland just has a missing teeth wheel (60-2) at the crank shaft. After starting it doesn't know phase so it runs wasted spark until the ECU senses acceleration after each spark and determines phase. Not really following the KISS principle Shocked

I guess we'll have to add some kind of phase sensor. What are the requirements for this in MyP8, missing teeth? Configurable?

Back to top

« Last Edit: 08/15/09 at 20:35:06 by raz »

59° North
1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train

IP Logged

raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: P8 requirements Reply #3 - 08/15/09 at 20:40:44 Hm, if we go for MyP8 we'll need the external ignition coil drivers too. What are those? Easily obtainable?
Back to top	59° North 1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train IP Logged

greenmonster Full Member Offline Sweden Posts: 196	Re: P8 requirements Reply #4 - 08/15/09 at 21:25:54 You`re right, sorry, mixed up the sensors, I shouldn`t trust my memory that much... P7 & P8 same sensors.
Back to top	Ducati 907IE MyECU P8 IP Logged

Luhbo

Full Member

Offline

I Like My15M!

Posts: 186
Germany

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #5 - 08/16/09 at 00:43:49

raz wrote on 08/15/09 at 20:40:44:

Hm, if we go for MyP8 we'll need the external ignition coil drivers too. What are those? Easily obtainable?

Also the MyP8 is able to trigger the coils itself. Read the manual Wink

The temp-sensors are of course adjustable, look into the map Wink

Or am I missing something? I know someone who replaced the coil transistors with costly ultra low resistance FETs to address a similar problem

Why don't you stick to a wasted spark system? Do you want the MyEcu for spark only or also for a EFI conversion? I'd try even an EFI conversion with a wasted spark setup. Let it inject only half of what you need but this two times for one cycle.

I'm still planning to reactivate a SR500 and maybe convert it to EFI using a MyEcu. Then I'll probably end up with a similar system.

Hubert

On second thought: what happens when the plug fires into the open ducts while the first half of the charge is being injected?

Back to top

IP Logged

john in leeds

YaBB Newbies

Offline

Guzzi and Highland

Posts: 13
Yorkshire, UK

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #6 - 08/16/09 at 07:22:06

A number of observations

first wasted spark should not really be the way to go 'cos it is just that 'wasted' and I thought the coils were designed to function with a specific optimum

second the idea is to replace the original ecu in total for something that is more accessible for modification, tuning using lamda and replacement parts. My ECU seems to do just that

third I thought the P8, the My16m and the My 15m had similar inputs - is there a reason to pick one over the other?

Looks like this is going to be interesting

Back to top

« Last Edit: 08/16/09 at 07:23:45 by john in leeds »

IP Logged

Luhbo

Full Member

Offline

I Like My15M!

Posts: 186
Germany

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #7 - 08/16/09 at 08:01:17

Well, my thoughts were: what's a wasted spark compared to a lot of development / time to get such an acceleration recognition coded?
The idea of sensing the crankshaft acceleration right after spark to recognise spark TDC is a nice one, looks very elegant. What I wonder is how they manage the injection thing while the ecu is wasting sparks right after start up.

Has anyone looked up their webpage?

Hubert

Back to top

IP Logged

raz

Senior Member

Offline

Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV,
Innovate LC-1

Posts: 373
Stockholm, Sweden
Gender: male

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #8 - 08/16/09 at 08:01:47

From what I can tell wasted spark is not really an option. This is not a carb-to-injection conversion but a crappy-efi-to-myecu one and I tell ya this Swedish Stainless guy is just like me in that he will just love to fiddle with injection phasing and stuff like that.

As far as I can tell the model will depend on sensor requirements. We have a crank shaft mounted, missing teeth wheel. Space constraints stop us from using a My15/16M type wheel but some kind of camshaft TDC sensor should be possible. My guess is the shortest route is to make some kind of TDC sensor on the cam shaft and go for a MyP8 - why not the mini P8 advertised somewhere here. Question remains: what are the requirements for this TDC sensor?

Back to top

59° North
1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train

IP Logged

_Cliff_

YaBB Moderator

Offline

I Love YaBB 2!

Posts: 126

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #9 - 08/16/09 at 08:08:47

raz wrote on 08/15/09 at 20:27:01:

Apparently the Highland just has a missing teeth wheel (60-2) at the crank shaft. After starting it doesn't know phase so it runs wasted spark until the ECU senses acceleration after each spark and determines phase.

Sounds like a My16M or 15M is the way to go.
The Mk1 used a Centronics connector so it may be the easiest for custom use.
FYI: I'm doing a MyECU for the BMW twins. It uses a digital pickup like the Dyna ignitions.

Back to top

IP Logged

raz

Senior Member

Offline

Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV,
Innovate LC-1

Posts: 373
Stockholm, Sweden
Gender: male

Re: P8 requirements
Reply #10 - 08/16/09 at 08:10:19

Luhbo wrote on 08/16/09 at 00:43:49:

Also the MyP8 is able to trigger the coils itself. Read the manual Wink

The temp-sensors are of course adjustable, look into the map Wink

Aha... so we just flick the DIP switch and use the P8 outputs as is? That is good news.

We have means to set the temp sensor values, but only once for both. What I meant was if the present sensors doesn't have the same spec we will have to replace one or both so they read the same. This is probably the least of our problems though.

Back to top

59° North
1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train

IP Logged

raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: P8 requirements Reply #11 - 08/16/09 at 08:13:31 _Cliff_ wrote on 08/16/09 at 08:08:47: Sounds like a My16M or 15M is the way to go. Please elaborate. You don't mean we can use the present sensor as is, do you?
Back to top	59° North 1100 Sport iniezione elettronica -- the perfect merge of a superbike and a steam train IP Logged

Luhbo Full Member Offline I Like My15M! Posts: 186 Germany	Re: P8 requirements Reply #12 - 08/16/09 at 08:16:14 Does the MyP8 use both "turning" sensors?
Back to top	IP Logged

_Cliff_ YaBB Moderator Offline I Love YaBB 2! Posts: 126	Re: P8 requirements Reply #13 - 08/16/09 at 16:35:55 I don't see any reason why the current sensor can't be used. Yes the MyP8 uses both sensors?
Back to top	IP Logged

Luhbo Full Member Offline I Like My15M! Posts: 186 Germany	Re: P8 requirements Reply #14 - 08/16/09 at 17:56:39 "Turning" sensors should have been "both rotation sensors, flywheel and camshaft". Raz is talking about the phase sensor, I assume. The problem with the actualy mounted one might be that it is sensing the crankshaft, thus running twice as fast as the MyEcu normaly expects. Hubert
Back to top	« Last Edit: 08/16/09 at 17:58:29 by Luhbo » IP Logged

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
	Welcome to our forum.