CAJ Innovations Forums - My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor

Laverdalothar

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My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
07/01/10 at 17:24:24

Hi,

we are still struggeling a bit with the base-setup, currently we can get it running in idle and also up to 2.500 revs, but above it gets so rich it simply stalls. The Formula has very, very big injection jets and therefore every value-change has a huge impact on the mixture...

We are running it currently only with one Lambda in one down-tube. Is there a special setting needed to make that work in closed loop (remember, the laverda has no cam-sensor, it injects EVERY crank turn...) or is there no big difference in using one or two sensors?

Thanks

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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 685 The Land of YaBB	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #1 - 07/01/10 at 17:33:22 The obvious way is to reduce the values in the InjDur lines. Is this what you are doing?
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Laverdalothar

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #2 - 07/02/10 at 02:30:59

sure, they need to be roughly 50% of the original values. Problem simply is that the throttle positions in the map Cliff gave us are different to the ones in the original Mapp, the durations can not be taken as they are from a Guzzi and that has a different injector jet size etc. Everything has to be set point for point by hand, as the optimizer is not capable to adjust more than - I think - 10% or so and only minimal changes in the duration mean WAY richer or leaner, which is quiet tough to do... Embarrassed

Once a base-map has been set, the optimizer will surely help. Ideal however would be a selftuning mode for the base-map. That would be a cool feature... Wink

adjusting all the points at the same time does not really help (tried it, did not work) as - as said - the maps do not really work for the Laverda, even not if all values are reduced by the same %...

Any Idea? Is there anything else that needs to be set to make sure the My16 does not wait for the secound Lambda-signal to appear?

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_Cliff_ YaBB Moderator Offline I Love YaBB 2! Posts: 126	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #3 - 07/02/10 at 07:35:31 If you know part of the map is too rich, use the global map adjust feature of the ECUController to lean off that portion. When it's in ballpark the closed loop can do the rest.
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greenmonster

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #4 - 07/02/10 at 11:27:06

Quote:

Problem simply is that the throttle positions in the map Cliff gave us are different to the ones in the original Mapp,

So why not change them to original map TPS?
And how do you know they`re not the same?

Quote:

Ideal however would be a selftuning mode for the base-map. That would be a cool feature...

That is what the O2 targets are for in the map.
You already have a Lambda for that,
is it a wideband?

And how about ignition (I am very unsure about this),
isn`t the 90`s 750 Lav a parallell twin? Huh

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« Last Edit: 07/02/10 at 11:44:50 by greenmonster »

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Laverdalothar

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #5 - 07/02/10 at 15:55:23

_Cliff_ wrote on 07/02/10 at 07:35:31:

If you know part of the map is too rich, use the global map adjust feature of the ECUController to lean off that portion.
When it's in ballpark the closed loop can do the rest.

Hi Cliff,

Markus (who does the adjustment) tried it with the global map adjust but it seams the bike is so sensible to the adjustment that anything just a little over or under the right value causes the bike to stall... as said: really big injector jets, therefore very little changes have quiet an impact...

We got it running meanwhile on very little throttle openings up to 3.500 even in a way you can ride the bike up and down the road, but the moment you open throttle just a bit more, it stalls again... Angry

seams it really needs very careful settings... Embarrassed

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Laverdalothar

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #6 - 07/02/10 at 15:59:35

greenmonster wrote on 07/02/10 at 11:27:06:

Quote:

Problem simply is that the throttle positions in the map Cliff gave us are different to the ones in the original Mapp,

So why not change them to original map TPS?
And how do you know they`re not the same?

Quote:

Ideal however would be a selftuning mode for the base-map. That would be a cool feature...

That is what the O2 targets are for in the map.
You already have a Lambda for that,
is it a wideband?

And how about ignition (I am very unsure about this),
isn`t the 90`s 750 Lav a parallell twin? Huh

Well - we tried it in both ways: using cliffs TPS-Values and the ones from the original map, however, you can not completely take the values all down at the same %, it simply does not work - for what reasons ever.

Yes the 750 is a 180° parallel twin, ignition advance of the second cylinder is not the problem, we have the value for that. Can you explain a bit more regarding the O2 values? We have taken the ones from Cliffs map but to be honest, I am lacking of some know how how this all works together... can you enlighten me, please?

Thanks

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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 685 The Land of YaBB	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #7 - 07/02/10 at 16:35:39 With your setup, you may not be getting the advance you expect because you operate off the crank. You may be a factor of 2 out in both the advance and the RPM at which it happens.
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Laverdalothar

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #8 - 07/02/10 at 19:10:19

the ignition advance is not the problem, as it just fires "wasted spark", the only thing really making problems is the right setup for the injection... However, Injection advance was set to roughly 50% if I remember right, but will cross-check with Markus.

Any info on the O2 settings? we have seen the several volt-values and simply have taken them from Cliffs map, but are not sure what they really do mean?!? Any advice here really appreciated... Wink

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greenmonster Full Member Offline Sweden Posts: 196	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #9 - 07/03/10 at 05:27:54 O2 settings are the Lambda targets in Volt. 14,7 AFR is 1V f e. More: http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=119117.0 Starting w all on 13,5 should make the bike run OK.
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greenmonster Full Member Offline Sweden Posts: 196	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #10 - 07/03/10 at 10:21:32 Btw, what injectors on your bike? And when it bogs at 3500 RPM, what does the Lambda tell you? And again, you do have a wideband Lambda?!?
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Laverdalothar

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #11 - 07/03/10 at 18:55:02

yes, we do have a wideband lambda with LC1 installed.

The point is there are several voltages given in the map for the Lambda. Which one means what?!? I could imagine one is for top lean maximum, one is for maximum rich, one is for crusing and one for accelarating - but what are the others are fore ( I think to remember 6 values)?!?

When the bike stalls the Lambda is still to rich. The point is that you have several throttle positions and RPM combinations that all need to be set at least in the right ballpark to get it running in closed loop and only then you can opperate with the optimizer, right? As far as I understand it, the optimizer needs 5 firing circles to get to calculate the optimization. if you are way to rich, you don't get 5 circles, the bike simply stalls... Undecided

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greenmonster Full Member Offline Sweden Posts: 196	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #12 - 07/05/10 at 10:03:02 Around 14 is good f cruising/economy, 13-12,5 f power, see link above f Voltages. Other values are f transition, acceleration, off thottle etc. Go f 0,92V/13,5 AF on all, ought to get you in the ballpark.
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raz

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Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor
Reply #13 - 07/05/10 at 10:27:43

greenmonster wrote on 07/05/10 at 10:03:02:

Around 14 is good f cruising/economy, 13-12,5 f power, see link above f Voltages.
Other values are f transition, acceleration, off thottle etc.

Go f 0,92V/13,5 AF on all, ought to get you in the ballpark.

Greenmonster, are you using V as a Lambda sign (that would be a very confusing choice) or are you confusing lambda with voltage? Factory default LC-1 at A/F of 13.5 (Lambda 0.92) is 2.05V.

I currently use targets between 1.81V (Lambda 0.87 or A/F 12.79) and 2.10V (Lambda 0.93 or A/F 13.67). Just using 2 volts for all targets should produce a good running engine (if the closed loop wasn't too slow).

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raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: My16 on a 2 Cylinder Laverda with 1 Lambda-sensor Reply #14 - 07/05/10 at 10:43:09 Laverdalothar wrote on 07/01/10 at 17:24:24: remember, the laverda has no cam-sensor, it injects EVERY crank turn Are you using accurate deadtime values for InjVOn or is it set to zero all over?
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