CAJ Innovations Forums - Fuel Economy

Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Fuel Economy 04/09/12 at 02:05:33 I have a V11 Sport with high compression pistons, it's a real fuel hog. When I look at the plugs they look ok to me not black but the guys I ride with say it smells rich. I am a bit afraid to lean out the mixture incase I overheat something. What is the best approach Thanks in advance Roy
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raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #1 - 04/09/12 at 04:22:06 You wont destroy anything just by experimenting. I've been running maps so lean the bike did not run well. Regarding spark plug color, it mostly just tells you if the idle is lean or rich, unless you turn engine off during load (or cruise), coast to stop and look at the plugs. raz
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 685 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #2 - 04/10/12 at 07:03:46 I think leanness only damages an engine at high power settings, like an aircraft motor. You could try a small change like 5% across the entire map ( maybe leave the bottom left untouched so as not to affect starting and idle ) Your best long term option is to fit a wide band sensor like the LC1 and go closed loop.
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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #3 - 04/10/12 at 13:43:46

Thanks Raz, I am still running the map you sent me, the bike runs with stacks of power from low revs all the way to max.
I have removed the stock filter setup and running pods, perhaps that's some of the problem.
Currently I am chewing through 8L/100 km

Thanks Cliff, If I can find where I stowed the laptop I will lean it out as you suggest

Cheers

Roy

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Luhbo

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #4 - 04/14/12 at 22:56:51

Go back to the OEM configuration (airbox, snorkels, paper filter). I found that any modification of them reduces the airflow. You can tell this from the correction factor the Optimiser shows. Funny enough it's nearly the same with aftermarket cans. They give gains only at higher revs/loads, below the stock ones are unbeatable. It's a pitty they don't look and sound one tenth as good as they perform.

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Mad Farquhar

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #5 - 04/15/12 at 02:22:07

I believe Raz found out that "pods" instead of original airbox was poorer in operation on his 1100 Sporti. I am running K&Ns on the 1100 sporti TBs and am interested in these findings. The airbox was removed as that is where I put the optimiser card as I incorporated the buttons and lcd in a purpose made instrument housing so I would need to rearrange that if I went back to original.

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« Last Edit: 04/15/12 at 02:46:38 by Mad Farquhar »

MG Sport 1100 inj
Triking
Honda ST1100
V7 Stone

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Luhbo Full Member Offline I Like My15M! Posts: 191 Germany	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #6 - 04/16/12 at 05:10:39 Luhbo wrote on 04/14/12 at 22:56:51: .... reduces the airflow.... Not around bike and driver but through the engine Hubert
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raz Senior Member Offline Guzzi 11OO Sport, My16MkV, Innovate LC-1 Posts: 373 Stockholm, Sweden Gender:	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #7 - 04/18/12 at 02:37:30 Yeah, like Luhbo I could clearly see the Optimiser saying 5-10% less fuel could be used in most modes of operation. So despite the better looks of the pods I ditched them and went back to original box with some extra holes in the lid a la Phil Arnold. BTW Phil also confirmed the same thing - on a dyno. Raz
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Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #8 - 04/19/12 at 20:44:28 My experience with pods, I seemed to get a flat spot in mid rev range. I figured the rubber tubes that connect the throttle bodies to the airbox were acting as a tuned intake so I mounted the pods in the end of those. sure enough the power came right back. The K&Ns slipped inside and I fastened them in with a couple of self tappers.
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Mad Farquhar Full Member Offline Slainthe mhath Posts: 171 Black Isle, Scotland Gender:	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #9 - 04/20/12 at 06:57:29 Kiwi Roy wrote on 04/19/12 at 20:44:28: I figured the rubber tubes that connect the throttle bodies to the airbox were acting as a tuned intake so I mounted the pods in the end of those. sure enough the power came right back. Interesting.
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sign216

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #10 - 04/20/12 at 07:05:02

Mad Farquhar wrote on 04/20/12 at 06:57:29:

Kiwi Roy wrote on 04/19/12 at 20:44:28:

I figured the rubber tubes that connect the throttle bodies to the airbox were acting as a tuned intake so I mounted the pods in the end of those. sure enough the power came right back.

Interesting.

Yes, you would think that the different characteristics of the pod filters would negate any intake tract tuning. Good to see.

I'm a smallblock rider, and one of the good traits of the new 2012 engine is that it appears Guzzi may have resonance tuned the intake. A first for the modern smallblocks.

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Kiwi Roy

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #11 - 04/20/12 at 21:08:42

Velocity Stack, thats the term I was grasping for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stack

I find it interesting how the maps of a bike run in closed loop swell in mid rev range then taper off again.
Heres one of Cliff's for example

InjDur 08 3984 7968 7872 7712 7632 7456 7280 6768 6416 5856 5856 5312 4960 4784 4736 4160

I reckon in theory at a given throttle opening since the injectors operate in choked flow mode (flow rate is constant) opening time equates to fuel flow.
Having said that I would expect the injector time to be quite flat however in mid range because of the "Velocity Stack" effect much more air crams into the cylinder therefore more fuel is required to keep the air fuel ratio constant.

I'm willing to bet if you ran the same engine without the intake connected the shape would be much flatter.

Ok, tell me I'm out to lunch

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« Last Edit: 04/20/12 at 21:16:31 by Kiwi Roy »

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YaBB Administrator

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Re: Fuel Economy
Reply #12 - 04/22/12 at 16:00:18

Your example doesn't show a swelling at midrange and then a taper. Ignoring the first entry which is purely to help clear a flooded engine when starting, the numbers generally decrease with rpm.
The reason for this is that the fuel must match the air going into the engine. The airflow is really controlled by the restrictive intake tract - filter, throttle, etc. The engine can't really suck more in at higher rpm.
Hence as rpm increases the engine gets less air per stroke.

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Kiwi Roy Junior Member Offline I love MyECU! Posts: 66	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #13 - 04/25/12 at 21:01:32 So much for that theory then I will have to find another theory to explain how adding some length to the intake tract seems to improve the power band and why the stock airbox works best. Thanks for the explanation Cliff, it makes perfect sense.
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YaBB Administrator YaBB Administrator Offline I love YaBB! Posts: 685 The Land of YaBB	Re: Fuel Economy Reply #14 - 04/26/12 at 07:42:32 My explanation ignored any affects of resonances in inlet or exhaust which will cause peaks and troughs on top of what I mentioned.
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