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Ducati and MyP8 (Read 62629 times)
996SPS
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ducati with P8

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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #30 - 04/09/13 at 20:01:33
 
Does the Guzzis have a linear TPS?

Ducati doesn't.

So,

here's a nice pic I made:

...

Green is original MyECU TPS points.
Blue is original Weber Marelli TPS degrees (x10, for clarity)
Brown is new, calculated MyTPS values, calculation formulas I took from here:
http://forums.ducatipaso.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2804
I think He's a member here too.

Does this look ok?
Shouldn't the calculated line be a little closer tot the WM line, to 'imitate' it better? That's what we are trying to accomplish here, right?

So, should I just manually put the values in, to imitate WM, or should I just use the default MyECU line.

What are the pro's and con's with these approaches, linear vs. non-linear?
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #31 - 04/09/13 at 20:20:28
 
I'm on a roll here..

another thing that is puzzling me..

The maximum opening time of a an injector is roughly ~11ms,  at 10.5k rpm, (996 rpm limit) due to the length of the duty cycle.

I have obtained the original fuel map of my SPS and there are values over 11ms in it.

Remember, that SPS engine originally uses dual injectors, fired sequentially at higher RPMs.

In the beginning I am going to be running single injectors. this will get me started and running, but eventually I will run out of injector time.

If I wire the second set of injectors parallel to the other injectors, I will most likely run in to problems at low RPMs/small throttle openings, due to shortness of injection time and such.

Thoughts?


I am far from running in to these problems yet, there's STILL snow on the ground here, but I want to get a head start on all this $hit.
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #32 - 04/14/13 at 23:49:45
 
Figured out the fuel pump issue.

Bad soldering on the leg of the FET, it wasn't connecting with the resistor.

Next thing to figure out is the cold start. My SPS has always been a poor starter and I bet it doesn't get any easier with MyECU.

/edit: picture

...




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« Last Edit: 04/15/13 at 02:44:53 by 996SPS »  
 
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Rickf4
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #33 - 04/20/13 at 00:07:30
 
The normal 996S uses 2 injectors in parallel. I've ridden 2 of them, both with ultimap chips, and the fueling was nice, so your bike should run fine with both injectors.  The 996s has 2 green injectors, one in each side of the port.

I wouldn't  worry too much about the throttle set points. They are just reference points to your map. From cliffs map I just made some small changes like the top row. The Tps never goes to 1024 so you can check the maximum voltage your Tps goes and adjust the top line. Mine goes to 1000( aprox 4.80volt)

As you start tuning with the afr you can see the cell's you use more and make slight changes according to that. If you ride in the city and cruise at low speed I would probably have 1 or 2 more rows devoted to the lower throttle openings and less at the top. With an open ecu you have this flexibility.
Be very smooth with your throttle and let the closed loop do it's work. In my experience the afr never gets correct at first, so give it some maps to get it right. Dont do very big logs at first. More smaller logs give the chance for the map to evolve faster and get the air fuel to a point that the bike is happy with it and you can ride longer distances and is safer for the engine. The worst part for me is the part throttle at lower gears were you have ride a bit crazy on the streets. Cool 

Cheers and good luck on your project...
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #34 - 05/13/13 at 19:09:22
 
some progress;

I have a hard time understanding why this thing does not start?

I've tried TDC=0 and TDC=1, I've tried low amounts of fuel, I've tried crazy amounts of fuel(all the corrections and parameters on top of each other make it complicated.)

I tested with JuhaV the original WM ecu and it fires both injectors at the same time during start up. We used an oscilloscope. The MyECU does this too, right?

the thing is, that since this machine is originally a poor starter (due to small starter, bad starter ratio, high compression, battery, etc.) I really do not want to stress the system any more than I have to. I really do not want to break/fry my starter, starter sprag wheel, etc.

We tried all sorts of map combinations (we changed e.g. InjVOn, Crank, Prime, etc..)

and it still would not start. the engine was warm. I had ridden it with the original ecu prior to our tests.

and, when I plugged the original ecu back on, it would start instantly.

CO, Idle, TPS and balance are set spot on.

Next thing I will do is solder the second injectors parallel to the first ones. It looks like the WMP8 is using them all the time.
Maybe the fuel atomization will be better at startup, once both injectors are firing and the injector sprays meet in the middle, just under the butterfly. Now, with one injector, it probably just squirts directly to the opposite wall.

also, need to really check the timing of the injection vs. the spark. when does it REALLY happen on both the original ECU and MyECU.
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #35 - 05/13/13 at 20:47:22
 
I suggest you go back to my original map.

Next you should capture a log from the ECU while cranking - for just a few seconds.

Then send me the log
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #36 - 05/13/13 at 22:03:18
 
we did the testing in Juhas garage, with the ECU connected to a PC. I'll se if I have some older logs on my Tablet or Phone.

I have also tested the "Cali" map. not a significant improvement. or worse either..

When I first got it running on the Cali -map, long time a go, it wasn't easy starting then either (with a warm engine).

now, when we get +5 to +10 celsius mornings here and I REALLY need to go, I'll probably have 4 to 6 atttemps, and after that the battery is so low, that it won't start no matter what. My battery is good, this I know. Probably due for replacement next year (at ~100 EUROs..)

all this is not a problem at home, where I can have the bike on a charger constantly, if needed. But when I am traveling home or abroad, there is no such luxury, unfortunately.

/edit:

oh, BTW: the real time sliders for injection time and ign. advance do not work with MyP8 and ECUControl v.1.51. (Juha said that for the MyM16 they work.)
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« Last Edit: 05/13/13 at 22:12:37 by 996SPS »  
 
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #37 - 05/14/13 at 09:19:23
 
YaBB Administrator wrote on 04/04/13 at 08:43:59:
All on is not a proper state. Mine are set to ON,OFF,ON,OFF
Switch position wont stop the fuel pump, although switch 4 might delay it a few seconds.


Wait, shouldn't SW1 be OFF, to enable closed loop operation?

I say this based on the MyECU User Manual.
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #38 - 05/14/13 at 09:56:58
 
You are correct sign216 but lets not confuse the situation. That has nothing to do with his problem of starting and the context of those switch positions was not in relation to closed loop operation.
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #39 - 05/14/13 at 10:14:04
 
Okay.  Should have read the entire thread.
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #40 - 05/14/13 at 16:15:23
 
Couldn't find any recent logs.

I'll have to log some starts.

I don't have closed loop at the moment, eventually I will. (If things don't break before that)
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« Last Edit: 05/14/13 at 16:16:30 by 996SPS »  
 
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #41 - 05/16/13 at 04:19:12
 
heres a new logfile.

after not starting with myecu, i plugged the weber marelli back and it fired within 5 secs.

let me know what you make of it.

/edit: ok, how do I add an attachment?
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« Last Edit: 05/16/13 at 04:23:43 by 996SPS »  
 
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #42 - 05/16/13 at 05:10:20
 
I posted the log to the maps -section.
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #43 - 05/16/13 at 07:56:32
 
I suggested you go back to my original map and here is why.
You have made changes that pretty much guarantee the bike will not start.

You have changed the first RPM break from 500
RPMS 1000 1500 2000 2749 3501 4502 5000 5499 5752 6250 6745 7500 7796 8242 8601 10997
From the owners manual "The 500 RPM is needed for starting so don't think you can remove this. The 1100 RPM column should be set to match your idle speed. There is normally little reason to change these values."

You have taken out all the fuel required for starting
Prime   16   16   15    4    4    4    4    4    4    4    4    4
and post start ( not that you would get here )
Boost   80   70   65    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0    0   15   15   15    0

I don't see any resets while cranking so that is one good thing.

Go back to my map and try starting without any modification apart from TPS.
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996SPS
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Re: Ducati and MyP8
Reply #44 - 05/16/13 at 15:15:24
 
prior to these tests the first RPM break was 500. moving to 1000  was because somtimes during starting the rpms would jump over 500 and I thought the engine the thinks it is running. anywy, noo significant chage.

also, I've played with the crank quite a lot, to no avail.
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